Misc #14414: Move https://ruby-talk.trydiscourse.com/ to talk.ruby-lang.org

• Status: Rejected
• Assignee: hsbt (Hiroshi SHIBATA)

[sam.saffron (Sam Saffron)]

We created a read only mirror of the ruby talk mailing list at:

https://ruby-talk.trydiscourse.com/

I would like this moved under the ruby-lang.org domain and to make it official (and linked from ruby-lang.org).

As it stands there is no easy to navigate web archive for the mailing list, ruby forums has been sunset.

Introducing this will not amend any current workflows, people still use mailman to post to the mailing list. It simply exposes years of history in an easily searchable way to the Internet.

Longer term I do want a 2 way bridge provided it is entirely seamless and compatible. But for now this is simply a mirror.

[duerst (Martin Dürst)]

This is only for ruby-talk at the moment. There are more mailing lists on this server; is the idea that all would be mirrored, or not?

Discourse certainly looks better than the traditional archive at http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/ruby/ruby-talk/438801-439000.shtml#latest.

I'm not sure this is the right tracker for issues related to the site itself (actually, I'm pretty sure it's not); I hope somebody else can give you a pointer to the right tracker.

[normalperson (Eric Wong)]

[e-mail] wrote:

This is only for ruby-talk at the moment. There are more
mailing lists on this server; is the idea that all would be
mirrored, or not?

Fwiw, there's https://public-inbox.org/ruby-core/ and
https://public-inbox.org/ruby-dev/ which implements proper
threading + nesting (same algorithm as the "msgthr" RubyGem)

I don't have the space for ruby-talk, yet...

I'm not sure this is the right tracker for issues related to
the site itself (actually, I'm pretty sure it's not); I hope
somebody else can give you a pointer to the right tracker.

That one requires running proprietary JS and a corporate
Terms-of-Service, though; and @hsbt (Hiroshi SHIBATA) has indicated he's willing
to forward issues there.

[shevegen (Robert A. Heiler)]

I think it would be a nice thing to unify ressources onto the *ruby-lang.org main namespace in general.

Not just trydiscourse - but I agree with Sam.

It may also be useful, provided that it may be possible, to think about having a webforum on
ruby-lang.org - but I don't want to really suggest it per se for now, because of work load
for others in setting up and maintaining it; which is, I think, another reasno why Sam's
suggestion is good, as it is just a read-only mirror. Meaning, it should be simpler for
people to read what is going on on the mailing lists for example.

I grew up in a world where phpbb was everywhere - I never got into mailing lists, could not
handle the traffic. So for people like me, that would be convenient.

ruby forums has been sunset

Yes, this is also in a few ways unfortunate; not that ruby forums were that ... important
per se, perhaps; and stackoverflow also changed the landscape, but ruby forum was nice
in a sense that you did not have to handle mails (if we ignore the spam issue though).

I think that there is presently a lack of ruby resources for newcomers and semi-newbies
in ruby. We older ruby hackers may not depend as much on resources like that but younger
folks may benefit more from it. At any rate, +1 to what Sam wrote.

There are more mailing lists on this server; is the idea that all would be mirrored,
or not?

I personally have no preference there, or rather, don't mind either way. I think Martin
understands german too :) as I do, but I myself only use the english variants in general,
mostly because english is widespread and it lowers the barrier of entry for people
participating. Since I think languages should in general help people come together
rather than stay away, and also because ruby is sort of a subset of the english language
with an OOP focus in mind, I am perfectly fine to just have a read-only mirror for
english (or the main language used in the mailing lists).

That one requires running proprietary JS and a corporate
Terms-of-Service, though; and hsbt (Hiroshi SHIBATA) has indicated he's willing
to forward issues there.

I think static links and static archives are also fine in addition to that for
an archive; blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp format is fine. I guess it should be possible
to preserve/use both variants. I think the major point is actually to unify
resources onto the main ruby website. One could even think of putting rubygems
onto there too, but no worries, I digress here - I just like unified access to
a language's resources in general, largely due to "convenience of use" alone.

Anyway, let's try to get Sam to have a look at the thread here again and comment. :)

[hsbt (Hiroshi SHIBATA)]

• Status changed from Open to Rejected

Hi, Sam.

Thank you for your offer. But I can not care about discourse.com as *.ruby-lang.org.
For example, When talk.ruby-lang.org is down, its users will claim to me.

We should maintain them each policy.

Again, Thank you for your offer.

[sam.saffron (Sam Saffron)]

I think I did a terrible job explaining this and believe it is a language barrier.

Problem

• All mailing list discussion is not searchable on Google, this is hurting the community

Example:

• https://www.google.com.au/search?q="return+false+if+all_states.empty%3F+%23+needed+if+we+assume+empty+test"&oq="return+false+if+all_states.empty%3F+%23+needed+if+we+assume+empty+test"

• https://ruby-talk.trydiscourse.com/t/how-to-test-if-an-array-include-only-two-items/74544/7

Solution

• Make ruby-talk.trydiscourse.com searchable by Google.

Problem

• It is unclear if we are allowed to make ruby-talk.trydiscourse.com searchable by Google

Solution

• Matz to decide if this is allowed

Problem

• ruby-talk.trydiscourse.com is a bad domain name

Solution

• talk.ruby-lang.org would be a great domain name

Problem

• hsbt needs admin access to computer if Discourse dies

Solution

• talk.ruby-lang.org will be hosted on a dedicated digital ocean droplet, hsbt will have admin ssh access

Problem

• hsbt does not want extra work

Solution

• Sam to donate his own time for all maintenance of talk.ruby-lang.org, hsbt has no extra work.

---

I am just trying to help the community here, not having our discussions searchable by Google is a huge shame.

[matz (Yukihiro Matsumoto)]

Sounds reasonable. @hsbt (Hiroshi SHIBATA) do you have any additional concern?

Matz.

[hsbt (Hiroshi SHIBATA)]

ruby-talk.trydiscourse.com is a bad domain name

I don't think so. Problem: All mailing list discussion is not searchable on Google, this is hurting the community and Problem: ruby-talk.trydiscourse.com is a bad domain name are no relational problem.

hsbt has no extra work.

I don't believe it.

When *.ruby-lang.org was down, users report to me or shugo.

For additional information, I have the plan to replace current servers of ruby-lang.org in 2018. It's a high priority for me. I don't have enough time to consider your request now.
Please wait until this summer. After that, I may change my policy.

Thank you.

[sam.saffron (Sam Saffron)]

Ok, Matz we will move this to a proper domain for now.

We will see if something like ruby-talk-archive.com is available, register it, and make sure it is indexed by Google.

We will ensure on the footer of all pages it is clear how to contribute (by creating an account on mailing list and so on)

Let me know if any of this is a problem.

I was hoping a CNAME or A record could be added and this could be official, but I guess it is just too hard for now.

EDIT: ok, I own rubytalk.org now.

---

I can live with "Officially not un-endorsed" for now.