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Feature #14722

python's buffer protocol clone

Added by jsaak (jsaak jsaak) over 2 years ago. Updated about 1 month ago.

Status:
Open
Priority:
Normal
Assignee:
-
Target version:
-
[ruby-core:86746]

Description

Is there a way to implement, or even copy Python's buffer protocol in ruby?

There is an article that describes the benefits quite well:
https://jeffknupp.com/blog/2017/09/15/python-is-the-fastest-growing-programming-language-due-to-a-feature-youve-never-heard-of/

I did some work with machine vision, and the ability to manipulate images fast was also not realistic with ruby today.
This could be another area where ruby could shine.

Maybe this idea is worth a comment.


Related issues

Related to Ruby master - Feature #13767: add something like python's buffer protocol to share memory between different narray like classesOpenActions

Updated by shevegen (Robert A. Heiler) over 2 years ago

I do not think that the above article describes as to why python has
become so popular. It is DEFINITELY not because of a SINGLE feature.

But anyway, I do not want to digress from your suggestion, and I am
pretty sure that matz is listening overall. :)

Take the "3x as fast" goal for ruby 3.x (compared to ruby 2.0, I
think). This can be extended to also include "make ruby faster for
scientific applications - and big data". I myself am not a programmer
per se; my main fields are genetics/molecular biology/bioinformatics,
sort of.

There are also other suggestions to improve the speed/memory situation
in ruby elsehwere, like here:

https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718

And also:

https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14710

Which compares ruby to python numpy.

So I think you are not the only one and I am pretty sure
that matz is also at the least indirectly aware of some of
this.

As for the buffer protocol, does ruby not have a buffer protocol
that offers speed like python does too?

There is one thing I totally agree with on that linked article
which is:

"Data Scientists, looking for a language that is both expressive
and fast (with good numerical computing library support to
boot) all settle on Python"

I disagree that it is primarily because of the buffer protocol;
from my experience, e. g. if you are a C++ hacker, then it is
more likely that you already know python and use it, rather than
learn a new language, so this is self-amplifying, but NOT because
of any singular features that exist or lack. But I agree with the
net result, e. g. that this self-amplification leads to more
python hackers/developers who also know C/C++.

To me it is not only a question of speed alone though - documentation
is one issue as well, in my opinion. I'd love to extend the whole
"3x as fast" goal with "3x as fast in the whole ruby ecosystem"
AND the "3x improvement of the documentation as well". :)

Lack of manpower in ALL areas may also be one problem - you can
not easily fix everything in one day.

I doubt the general simplification of the article though - for
example, the article claims that python "won" because of "big
data", but in one local technical university here, people who
study "process engineering", have 4.0 ECTS in one semester
learning python. I took that course too and passed it. (4.0
ECTS in a half-year means about 1/6 of the given semester, so
that is quite a big value in python for a curriculum that
focuses on process engineering per se). And the people there
studying process engineering, I can assure you that they have
literally NOTHING to do with big data per se - they merely use
python because it is so simple and "expressive". They could
easily use ruby too, but unfortunately here in europe, ruby
lags behind for various reasons in adoption in teaching classes.
(Though, ironically enough, there is one course there about
rails ... https://tiss.tuwien.ac.at/course/courseDetails.xhtml?dswid=7599&dsrid=722&courseNr=188519&semester=2018S&locale=en)

Anyway, I am very sure that the ruby core team does not mind
speed gains in regards to (external/new) protocols. I am not
sure if there is a path towards using it or not.

Updated by jsaak (jsaak jsaak) over 2 years ago

The article is an oversimplification, I do agree. But some common mechanism to pass chunks of memory to C libs (gsl, blas, opencv, maybe cuda, and many others) would help I think. This way you could run all of the functions of these libraries on the memory region. And then get the results in rubyland.

There are c bindings for these libs, but you can not mix two libs at all (I think).
That is why a ruby core mechanism is needed.

It is quite possible, that my understanding about this topic is lacking. That is why I asked first.

Updated by dsisnero (Dominic Sisneros) almost 2 years ago

I agree with this request and filed a similar bug: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/13767.

Updated by dsisnero (Dominic Sisneros) 3 months ago

Any thoughts on this? This would help to use views of numo_narray and NMatrix without copying to/from ruby. See https://github.com/ruby-numo/numo-narray/issues/25

#5

Updated by mrkn (Kenta Murata) about 2 months ago

  • Related to Feature #13767: add something like python's buffer protocol to share memory between different narray like classes added

Updated by mrkn (Kenta Murata) about 2 months ago

I have a similar problem. I want to share raw memory among the different C extension libraries, such as numo-narray, red-arrow, numpy.rb, and pandas.rb.

I intended to implement PEP-3118 like feature in Fiddle (See ruby/fiddle#17 and ruby/fiddle#18), but it has not been done, yet. This feature is just related to C extension library layer, so Fiddle should be a suitable place to implement it. But it could not be done because we encountered the difficult issue: referring symbols in a C extension library from the other C extension library.

We need to introduce functions like PyObject_CheckBuffer and PyObject_GetBuffer for realizing buffer protocol. If we introduce rb_fiddle_check_buffer and rb_fiddle_get_buffer in fiddle.so, there is no portable and legal way to refer them from the other C extension libraries.

There are two ways to avoid this issue.

  1. Introducing libruby-fiddle.so in Fiddle. This provides functions for C extension libraries. It is installed in the directory where libruby.so is located.
  2. Implement buffer protocol features in Ruby's core.

I guess the former way is very difficult because we let gem install put libruby-fiddle.so in the appropriate place. So it is better to provide buffer protocol in Ruby's core if possible.

Updated by mrkn (Kenta Murata) about 2 months ago

In today's developer meeting, the participants want to have a look at a concrete implementation proposal.
I'll propose Ruby's version of the buffer protocol later.

Updated by mrkn (Kenta Murata) about 1 month ago

I'm working on writing a patch for this issue in https://github.com/ruby/ruby/pull/3261.

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